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0:26 All right, you will say good morning a good morning. Let us begin beginning by thanking all of our sponsors for this morning's share to think our eternal response our machine to Calvin for dedicating all the this month in memory of Aaron's father Yael Ben Avram. Our week of learning sponsors Nathan and Beth Adler in memory of Beth's sister Abigail Bas Svi. 0:49 Our week of learning sponsors anonymous for a full of Ali Ben Alishava. Jeff and Karen Cohn for dedicating the week of learning motion of the 16th yard site of Karen's father Meyer Axeman and wishing a mazel tov to their grandchildren Rina and Yisrael Katz. Our Daffomi sponsors for today I Allen Sarah Steinberg in this course of continued health for Hana Bas Susha as well as and Rachel Rabinstein in commemoration 1:13 of the yard site of father Baruch Naftali Ben HaKover Mosha which is today and in honor wow in honor of one more exact year from today's Hebrew date to the Siyum Hashas. Incredible incredible. One year from the Hebrew date incredible. Right for the for many of us from day one on Brochos Daf two Baruch Hashem keep stein a 1:36 beautiful beautiful message and wow incredible one year from today. I I don't make the schedule. I'm not >> >> I don't know I don't know. You can fact check this you can fact check it I will stand the sponsor for today Baruch Hashem by on the birth of our second granddaughter this week Baruch Hashem. To our children, to Mordechai and Chaya Rochel 2:00 of Lakewood, New Jersey. Mazel tov late breaking 3:30 this morning, baruch Hashem. So, we dedicate our learning in this little girl's zechus, b'ezras Hashem. May her parents be zocheh to megadel her l'Torah u'l'chuppah u'l'maasim tovim. And b'ezras Hashem, may she be given a bench coming into this month, coming into this world on Shloshim Simchas Torah, to lead a life that is filled with ruchniyus, to lead a life that is filled with kedusha. And b'ezras Hashem, may they have a siman tov u'mazel tov 2:24 u'simchas So, say with that, let us begin. Today's daf is Yud Tes, is 19. We are picking up b'ezras Hashem on Yud Tes amud Beis, 18b. And we left off, I actually realized I left off like two lines before the actual sugiyah ends. But, the Gemara was remember we were speaking about this zivug Rabbi Zeira went to Eretz Yisrael, and he started observing, he started observing different minhagim. 2:47 He started observing different laws, and they asked him, "What's going on over here?" So, the Gemara says, the Gemara says we actually left off Amri Abaye derav Yosef bar Rabba, bar on the asumi mechuza, amri, "I but deravanan came from mechuza ordered this ruling." Amri Rabbi Zeira mishmei derav Nachman, "Mugrames k'sheira." Amri lei, "Nahar nahar pashtei." So, again, he's just pointing out that Rashi says over there, "Nahar nahar pashtei" is six lines up, yeah, six lines up from the bottom of 3:10 Rashi, "Kol nahar mispasheit b'makom she'ragil sham." Every river flows in its own direction. K'lomar, "Kol makom holeich acher minhago." Every place follows its minhag. "Is duchta d'Bavel d'lo k'Rabbi Shmuel, v'is duchta d'lo nogu k'vassayu." So, again, even in Bavel, there were places that pasken like Rav Shmuel pasken, places that didn't pasken 3:33 like Rav Shmuel. Okay. Rabbi Shmuel bar Nachmani shomer, so we'll say "B'chudei d'kovei, b'chudei d'kovei." I'm sorry. Rabbi Shmuel bar Nachmani achshav b'chudei d'kovei. So, we'll say so, remember I I reposted the image from yesterday's daf in the chat. So, just take a quick look at that, if you don't mind. So, So we have two images over here. The top image is from Oh, I didn't bring the safer. Uh new safer that came out for this cycle on uh on on Simanim. 3:57 And then the second picture is the image just from the ArtScroll Gemara. Let's actually use that image from the ArtScroll for just a moment because actually for the for the for the um what's the word? For the biology that we're going to need today, this is a bit more descriptive. So comes along comes along Reb Shimon ben Lakish and he says, "Chuda d'koba." Now again, we'll say just to reorient. We're trying to figure out prach d'grama. Grama is the 4:20 psol if you shecht outside of the permitted area of the neck. So we're trying to figure out right now what we're really looking at is what is the highest area on the neck in which you're able to go ahead and shecht. So we're looking on the bottom image of the really at the at the at the trachea. Right? So again, at the at the corner over here. So right now, so Reb Shimon ben Lakish says that you could 4:43 cut even b'chuda d'koba. Chuda d'koba means literally the slope of the koba. Now koba, if you look on the bottom right of the image, is what's called the helmet thyroid cartilage. It's called the koba because if you notice, it begins to shape a little bit like a hat. 5:01 So Reb Shimon ben Lakish says, "You could even do shechita over there on that top part." So the Gemara says, "Call Rebbi Yochanan gisa gisa." So Rebbi Yochanan said about him, "Gisa gisa." Now what does that mean gisa gisa? Rashi says "Yotzei mi da'ato hagasa hagasa k'lומר yosef mi da'ato shechita." So gas means like large. So Rebbi Yochanan said to Reb Shimon ben Lakish, "Too much. Too much. You're 5:24 extending the area for shechita too much. You can't do shechita that high." Am Reb Papa mi'Shrei d'Rabba, "Paga b'chiti treifa." If you go ahead and you shecht so high on the trachea that you are getting into the chiti. Now what's the chiti? Once again, Rashi says, So Rashi says, "Domen l'chitin u'munachin al kana eitzel hakoba." So here, interestingly enough, so this is also somewhere next to the 5:47 kova, which usually means somewhere by the tabas. Somewhere by the tabas. Tabas gedola, which you can see on the image over there as well. So, if you go that high, it's going to be a treifa. You by the way So, we'll say the loshon of paga. Loshon of paga. Does paga mean that you shecht next to it, or paga means you're literally getting into it? You were just close two psukim that indicate that the 6:16 loshon of paga could mean different things. So, the what what are we saying over here? When when when Rava says, sorry, when R when R Papi says that if you shecht by the heating, which is the upper part of of the tabas, the by the by the by the cartilage area, the top of the cartilage area, or toward the toward the beginning of the cartilage area. Are we saying that literally you're shechting there? Right? You're not 6:40 you're hitting it, or you're coming close to it. So, the Gemara says, it might sheer the heating sheira. If you started shechting in the area of the heating, which again above say is the area right by right by the right by the helmet, and by the tabas, what we call the tabas gedola, the great ring. So, if you went ahead and you started to shecht, and you left a little bit over there, so the 7:04 Gemara says, ksheira. Ultimately again it's going to be kosher. sheer the heating sheira. If you leave a little bit over in that area called the heating, ultimately again the shechitah is going to be kosher. I'm going to read what Rashi Iklah Marzucha the Asrin. Marzucha came to our town, and darash, and he darshan, sheer the heating sheira. That if you shechted in this area called the heating, right, which again is by the 7:35 kova, by the tabas, if you went ahead and you shechted there, ultimately again and left over some of that amount there is going to be kosher. Mar Mar of Pag Abba Shira Shir Abba Treifa. Mar Abba said like this, Pag Abba means if you shecht close to this upper area I just want to point out just just to frame this a little bit. What you're beginning to see or what we're 7:58 continuing to see is that Halacha L'Maaseh Chazal really ideally wanted the Shrita to be along what we'll call the half circle, the horseshoe rings of the trachea. That was really the better idea which which makes sense because when Abba said, you can't see it in if you go back up to the upper picture, to the color picture. So if you notice the top picture there, you're looking at a cross-section of the trachea and the so 8:22 obviously if you notice over here, the esophagus lies right behind the trachea. So therefore, when you do Shrita, what you need to do is what? You need a straight cut to those two Simanim. Now you don't have to you don't have to cut the whole of both Simanim, you have to cut the majority of both Simanim, but you want a straight cut. So therefore, logically what makes 8:45 sense is you don't really want to get into that upper cartilage area, right? Because again, cutting through cartilage is obviously going to be much more difficult than cutting below. So that's why what the trying to figure out obviously now, if you go back to our lower image, the Artscroll image, so if you notice again, the higher you get on the trachea, the more dense of the cartilage becomes. More dense the 9:10 cartilage becomes, the more concerned we are are you cutting all the way through? That that's the issue. So therefore, what we're trying to figure out over here is what is the highest area on the top of the cartilage that we're that we're comfortable allowing Shrita. 9:26 That's what this is. So the Mar Mar Abba Abba Pag Abba Shira Shir Abba Treifa. So Mar Abba said like this, if you come close to shechting by the right, you come close to shechting by the so remember again, that is by the kova. So, you're you're coming you're coming close to shiting ultimately again by the kova area, which again I will say on the art scroll image is on the lower right. 9:48 So, then if you come close to that, shita is kosher. However, paga by shiti, if literally you're cutting in that area, ultimately again the shita is going to be a treifa. Incredible. The halacha the say what is the halacha top of your test. And I will say we're going to we're going to we're going to see all of this when we get a little bit more like into the complete anatomy. We'll see I'll give you better pictures about this. Also, we'll see the exact area 10:10 where shita is supposed to take place. The halacha is And what is the halacha top of your test 19A the halacha mishipuikova ulumata shira. The halacha is you can shaq ultimately again from any area that's called shipui hakova. 10:28 Ultimately from the slant of the helmet. Best to look at this in the art scroll image. Look, you can see I will say so again, if you're looking if you're looking towards the bottom right at the bottom all the way to the bottom right, you'll see the kova. If you go up one if you go up one, you'll see the shipui kova. So, the shipui kova literally means the slant of the helmet. That is the upper part. As you're getting to the right as you're getting to the upper 10:51 part of the trachea there's that shipui kova which is literally the slant. See, interestingly enough the halacha is shita is kosher all the way if you even if you're doing it all the way up there. That and then that is in fact the halacha l'maisa. You can do it. Now, again, remember remember what we're doing over here? 11:07 We're giving you the upper limit of the shita. Now, remember what we have not defined. So, once we define the upper limit, then we'll go back to define the lower limit. Now, upper limit does not mean that you should be doing shita here, right? Ideally, if you could do shita on a softer part of the trachea, that would seem to be a bit more optimal. But again, your upper level for shita is going to be the shipui hakova, 11:31 the slant the slant of the cartilage in the on the trachea. Incredible. So, the Gemara says as follows, "ul amata, sorry, mi el mi shipui akova ul amata kashira v' hainu d' shier b' chiti." That's the case of shier b' chiti. So, again, from the slant of the kova and below, that is going to be the upper range for the shrita from the area of cutting on the trachea. Rav Nachman achshav mi shipui 11:55 kova ul amata, Rav Nachman said that you can go ahead and do shrita from the slant of the kova and down. Am I right? Rav Chanina bar Rav Katina to Rav Nachman, "k' man?" Whose opinion are you reflecting? Lo k' Rav Nachman v' lo k' Rabbi Yosi, Rabbi Yehuda. S' like the Rabbanan, s' like Rabbi Yosi, Rabbi Yehuda. Why not our way? Ana lo chiluk b' dana v' lo b' hiluk dana. So, what is this great line? 12:14 We've seen this line before. Rabbi Yosi, Rabbi Yehuda says, "I don't know chiluk and I don't know hiluk." Which is another way of saying, "I'm not concerned with attribution. I'm concerned right now with statements of fact, right? Who said what? They could be machlokes. I'm telling you information. Ana shmeita yedana. I know information." Which I would say by the way is interesting because so often the Gemara is so focused on attribution. So, 12:38 okay, in this particular context, apparently Rav Chanina bar Rav Katina felt that it was more, sorry, Rav Nachman felt that it was more information to get more important to give the objective information. The attribution was of secondary importance. Rav Chiya bar Abba, Rav Abba bar Rav Kahana, Rav Abba, Rav Abba bar Rav Abba, Rav Chanina bar Rav Abba, Rav Abba bar Rav Kahana, bar Eidi, Rav Yehoshua ben Levi, "mi shipui kova ul amata kashira." If you sheft 13:00 again from the slant of the kova and down. So, again, I would say now we know, we know which area we're talking about. Again, in the art scroll image, you have the kova bottom right, right above that, the slant of the helmet, that is the upper area that is kosher for shrita. 13:18 Rav Yehoshua ben Levi, "mugremes d' Rabbanan kashira d' Rabbi Yosi, Rabbi Yehuda." But Rabbi Yosi, Rabbi Yehuda kashira d' Rabbi Chanina and Rabbi Hanina So, what is he now, we obviously have we obviously have a a number of different opinions as to what is the upper range for shechitah. So, the Gemara says as follows. This is actually very interesting. 13:38 So, Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai says I'm sorry, so Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai says that what is haggaramah? You know what I'm saying? Remember haggaramah means the pasul of shechitah when you shecht outside of the permitted area. So, what is considered to be haggaramah for the Rabbanan will be kosher for Rabbi Yose bar Yehuda. That which is haggaramah for Rabbi Yose bar Yehuda will be kosher for Rabbi Hanina ben Antigonus. The Gemara says, "Okay, pshita, that's obvious." We 14:01 saw all the shitot already. Pshita, mah temah od you have thought Rabbi Hanina ben Antigonus and the Rabbanan kayei. You might have thought that Rabbi Hanina ben Antigonus is not espousing his own opinion, but rather he's modifying the position of the Rabbanan. Kamash malan, no. Kamash malan, he's espousing his own opinion. Aye ve im lo hagani ami, maybe he is indeed espousing his own opinion. 14:18 Maybe he's commenting on the Rabbanan. Im kein, hayei alei mebayelei. Ultimately again, then it should have said that he testified about the statement of the Rabbanan. Fil chasa, and about what I said the halacha is like Rabbi Hanina ben Antigonus, deka Rav Nachman Kavo said. Okay, Amora'im Amora'im Amora'im Amora'im machlokes. 14:35 So, what I said now, interesting case. So, now we've established at least for now in the Gemara is that the shipuya kova, the slant of the helmet, seems to be again it's machlokes, but from the Gemara's perspective, that is the upper area for shechitah. Okay. So, now the Gemara is going to deal with an interesting case over here. Amora'im Amora'im Amora'im Amora'im machlokes she shachat shnei shlish ve higris shlish. 14:58 So, watch this, what I said. What happens if you shechted two-thirds two-thirds of the shechitah were done in the proper area, and then you did haggaramah for the last third. Now, you say, "How how would this happen?" It's very simple. How does it happen? You slant the cut. You slant the cut. So, right, either and by the way, it doesn't matter whether you're slanting up or you're slanting down. Generally, the way it would work best is you're going to be 15:20 slanting down. Right, that would generally be the way that it would work a little bit better. But okay, it doesn't it doesn't That doesn't matter for us right now. Point over here is you did 2/3 of this shchita in the permitted kosher area and 1/3 of the shchita outside of the permitted area. What is the status of that shchita? So here we go. The rabbonon sabri cooler shchita but in the beta bas kidola. 15:45 The rabbonon hold that the entire shchita needs to take place in what we call the tabaski dola. Rabbi Yose ben Yehuda sabar rubo ki kulo. Rabbi Yose ben Yehuda says, now according to the rabbonon 2/3 is not enough. You need all. You need all to take place in the permitted area. Rabbi Yose ben Yehuda says, no, rov, like everything else in life, right? Rov is going to be perfectly fine. Aval, hegrum shlish 16:07 vishachat shne shlish, what happens if we also listen to this, a little bit of a reverse case. The first third of the cut is outside of the permitted area followed up by 2/3 which is in the permitted area. What's the law? The reyak pasula. 16:23 Everyone agrees ultimately again that the shchita is going to be passel. Why is that? De he nafka chiyusa ba inyan ruba be shchita be leka. So this is very interesting because at the time that the life leaves the animal ultimately again we require we require that to be done ultimately again in a proper shchita. So I will say now this is very interesting. If you 16:46 look at Rashi, Rashi says over here "Aba inyan ruba be shchita ki kulo ha hu ruba de mepe chiyusa be inyan be shchita." So the Gemara is operating with an interesting idea that the animal actually dies 50% into the shchita. That that's the that's the only thing the Gemara is working with over here. At the moment that the animal actually dies, the shchita has to be occurring in a place that is permitted. So therefore 17:09 listen to this. So therefore if you go ahead the Gemara says, I'm sorry, the reyak pasula. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Take that back. Aval, hegrum shlish vishachat shne shlish, the reyak pasula. So I'm sorry. erase that. We'll come back to that 50% in just a little bit. If you did have grammar on the first If you did have grammar on the first third, and then ultimately again a kosher on the last 2/3, everyone agrees that it's 17:32 possible. Why? Because at the time that the animal died, right time that which is sometime into the first third, you're in the middle of cutting in the in a legal place. So, so the most interesting thing is something very interesting. It's not enough for the majority of the to have occurred in the right way. 17:50 Because remember in this case, majority of the is still occurring in the right way. The first third was done in the wrong place. Last 2/3 done in the right place. You say, "Oh, go bust a rule." The has another piece of information. No, at the time that the animal dies, halacha shrita must be occurring in the right place. So, in this situation now, where the first third was done illegally, 18:13 right in the wrong place, or as soon as the animal dies sometime during that first third, everyone is going to agree that the is possible. Quite fascinating. Why why can't I say just the opposite? She say just the opposite. Why can't she say the Why don't say this? The is when you have grammar, you're cutting outside of the permitted area. Let's say when 18:38 the first third is in the wrong place, and the last 2/3 are in the right place. That's what the is all about. Maybe the So, we'll say watch this. The will say, "That's no different That's no different than I'll say in a case of where you find half of the trachea cut. Let's say again the 19:01 right gets in there, and half of the trachea is already cut. Right? How do you So, let's let's call 49% is already cut. What's the say? The is actually the shrita be good. Now, whether or not that's a trade for issue, leave that aside, but the shrita can actually be good. Why? Because what I need for shrita is what? What do I need for shrita? Majority of both simanim cut. 19:23 So, as long as I am responsible for creating the majority cut, ultimately the shrita is going to be good. Now, whether or not we pass in this way, just we're not we're not up to that yet. Right now, we're just talking in the theoretical. So, therefore, again, we will say in the case of where I did a grama on the first third, and the second two-thirds are proper shrita, that should be good. That should be no different than finding a 19:45 trachea that's 49% of the way cut, and I finish it off in halacha l'maaseh, it's good. And therefore, we also would say that the shrita should be kosher. But Rabbanan will disagree. They will say, "No, makom shrita, ha ha, lav makom shrita." There's a big distinction. There in that case, where I'm finding the trachea cut, I'm completing a cut in an area where the cut is supposed to be occurring. 20:06 That's different than hagrama. Hagrama means remember again, I'm cutting in an area where I'm not supposed to be cutting. So, therefore, if the first third of the shrita occurs there, and that's where the animal dies, then maybe everybody would agree that shrita is not good. Shlish, behegrem shlish, but if you did shrita on two-thirds, meaning whenever we say shrita, shrita always means that you're cutting in the right place. If you went 20:29 ahead and you did shrita, first two-thirds proper shrita, and then what? Last third was hagrama. Last third was outside of the prescribed prescribed area. Therefore, kol she'eira, everyone will agree that halacha l'maaseh it's kosher. Why? De'ochtanan, rubo shel achad k'mulo. Because we operate with the principle that the majority of a siman is treated like the whole. And 20:52 therefore, halacha l'maaseh, as long as I got through the majority of the siman, I'm good to go. Man name alanda who rubo de'ochtanan lav who do. How do you know that the statement about rubo? Maybe that's reflecting the view of Rabbi Yosi Rabbi Yehuda, to which the Amora says, "Dilma Dilma Rabbi Yosi Rabbi Yehuda Katani Lo?" Amora Abaye says, "O to call Ruba the Amora Rabbi Yosi Rabbi Yehuda Katani 21:16 Lo? Is every single time we quote Ruba is it always Rabbi Yosi Rabbi Yehuda?" Amora Abaye says, "Ana Ruba Dishchita Kamina Dishamra Lo Yehuda Pligi." I'm not talking about every Ruba, but yes, every time we do talk about Ruba in Shchita, often that could be Rabbi Yosi Rabbi Yehuda because he argues on those cases. Okay, Lishna Chrina alternative version of this previous discussion about say second wide line you test Amud 21:39 Daled 19A. Lishna Chrina alternative version Amora Abaye says, "Sorry, in Lishna Chrina Amora Abaye Amora Puna Amora Abaye Machlokes K'shehegrim Shlish V'shachar Shlish." So what they're saying this is an alternative version of it. Machlokes is where you did Hagruma on the first third and then proper Shchita on the last two thirds. Rabbi Yosi Rabbi Yehuda Savor 22:01 Meedi D'havei Achas S'kanah Pagum. Rabbi Yosi Rabbi Yehuda say that'll be Kosher. Why is it Kosher? Because at the end of the day that's no different than getting into the animal and finding that the trachea was 49% cut. Then what's the Halacha? As long as you finish it off ultimately again the Shchita is good. So therefore even if you did Hagruma on the first third, but you did proper Shchita on the last two thirds you should be 22:24 good to go. But Rabbanan D'Rabbanan will say "Hasam Makom Shchita Hacha Lo Makom Shchita." D'Rabbanan will say "What are you talking about? Right? It's two different cases. There you cutting in the Makom Shchita, right? in the right place." Ultimately again here with Hagruma it's not the Makom Shchita. "Ava Shachas Shnei Shlish V'hegrim Shlishi B'shlish Pasul." Amora Abaye says, "If you went ahead and you did Shchita on the first 22:49 two thirds and you did Hagruma on the last third, Devar Hakol K'sheira." Everyone will agree in that case that the Shchita is good. Why? "D'Has Nan Rubo Shel Achas Kamo." So what they're saying the Amora wants to suggest that that's an easy So, if you did 2/3 1/3 everyone should agree in that case totally kosher. Why? Rove. But, you've got more than rove, right? You've got 23:11 2/3. You've got 2/3. Maskin for R. Akiva man R. Akiva R. Akiva R. Akiva R. Akiva Katanila, who says that the one who was espousing the dinner of rove in that case is not R. Akiva. So, R. Akiva R. Akiva Katanila. R. Akiva R. Akiva R. Akiva R. Akiva R. 23:27 Akiva up two R. Akiva R. Akiva R. Akiva R. Akiva R. Akiva Katanila. Every single time we're going ahead and quoting rove with R. Akiva R. Akiva. R. Akiva R. Akiva R. Akiva R. Akiva R. Akiva coming in the sham to play every rove. I'm just happening to be talking about the rove of Akiva cuz R. 23:43 Akiva R. Akiva argues in that case. Okay, so I want to say fine. So, remember let let what what are our takeaways? What are our takeaways? So, number one, we're trying to establish that's our whole sugah right now. Akiva. What is the range on the neck where you could check? Akiva are hyper focused on the upper range. Right? That that's So, now we see by the just a tremendous Akiva. The Akiva itself said 24:06 that the is Akiva from the slant of the helmet. From the slant of the helmet which we saw the image that's really the almost the upper part of the trachea. Well, it's the the lower part of the upper part of the trachea. 24:21 That is that is the upper range for Akiva. Then the transitions into a what happens what happens if Akiva you your Akiva are of mixed bags. You have a combination between Akiva and Akiva. How will that work? That's a Akiva. That's a Akiva. Two versions of that. The Akiva says next, Akiva Akiva 24:44 Akiva Akiva Akiva Akiva. Okay, so as if life was not complicated enough. So, the Akiva says as follows. What about the following? We'll say I am seven lines up from the bottom. On your test I'm on page 19B. So exciting this Akiva. So, watch this. Hagrumshlish, the shochat shlish, the hagrumshlish. Okay, so watch this. Now, I'll show you how this happens in just a moment, but let's say you did a hagruma on a third. Again, I'll say remember our 25:07 terms, hagruma, you're cutting in a part of the neck that you should not be cutting. So, the first third of the shchita you did in an illegal area. Then, what happens? You dipped into legal space for the next third, and then the last third you went back out. So, essentially, you're shafting like uh uh uh uh, right? I stopped down up or or bottom up. Either way, it doesn't make a difference. Point over here is obviously 25:31 I'll say this is a this is a skilled sh- this is a skilled shochet. This guy shochet is doing this. I also, by the way, I should have thanked Reb Shmuli for the for the videos, and Gabi for the videos. Both videos were Shmuli's father. Just uh right? The start K1 was also both of them. So, I'll say so again, it's really helpful to have a lot more I got I I got a a message from a number of you, "Why can't I just send out the 25:55 whole shchita video?" Pace yourselves, right? If I If If I give you everything now, you check out for the rest of cholent, right? And you're done. There's a slow, gradual build-up over here, right? The blood is going to be spurting soon enough. Calm down, you barbarians, right? Calm down. We're going to We're going to get to it. We're going to get to all of it. Like I always say, you'll see that sometimes there's actually a much greater appreciation when we 26:20 sequentially build up this and actually begin to see what we're looking at. Okay, so today today coming attractions, there's going to be a good trachea video. I know it's exciting, not available on Netflix, only here only here. So, hold on, that's going to come out a little bit later on today. So, you know what I'm saying? It's follow. So, we'll say so now in this case over here, 1/3 hagruma, 1/3 proper shchita, last third hagruma. What happens over here? 26:42 So, if you know Av Shira, if you know what I'm saying, Reb Av's kosher. Rebbi Huda Av treifa. Interesting. Interesting. So, we'll say so again, what I want to point out over here is something very interesting, which is in this case right 1/3 grandma 1/3 1/3 so what's going on over here so so it's kosher which is actually quite shocking why does he say it's kosher listen to this cannot go 27:07 because he says at the moment that the animal dies at the moment the animal dies ultimately again the animal is losing its life in the midst of and I'll say now what what what is that what is that predicated on so ultimately again what that seems he predicated on is that he holds that the animal dies at the 50% mark as I'm mentioning before animal dies at the 50% mark where are you when you get 27:31 to the 50% mark where are you you're actually in a proper so the moment the animal dies ultimately again you're in an area of proper proper area and therefore the is going to be kosher it's quite fascinating Rabbi Yehuda um okay fine let's let's just go by this with a good she's about to catch up with you afterwards but so again so you can have a good 27:58 Rabbi Yehuda Rabbi Yehuda said no Rabbi Treif but you know what I like Rabbi Yehuda said no it's a treif why is it a treif why is it a treif because I say you require robe here you don't have robe what do you have you have 2/3 grandma 1/3 so I'll say this is really fascinating because this is a new this is a new nuance is is proper 28:22 ultimately determined by where the cutting is taking place at the time that the animal dies or is proper defined by 2/3 proper or or sounds like 2/3 51% proper and I've got me in this case over here 1/3 1/3 1/3 so according to the again so the point 28:45 is also so they're arguing on what Rav said. So, according to Rav Puna's understanding of Rav, it's kosher. Why? At the time that the animal dies, which seems to be at the the Gamara in the sense of at the 50% mark, you're actually in permitted area. You're cutting in permitted area. According to Rav Yehuda's statement of Rav, it's a treifa. Why? Cuz you end up with 2/3 hadrama, 1/3 shrita. Shachat shlish. 29:05 Next case. Shachat shlish, v'hegram shlish, v'shachat shlish. This is a reverse case. You did a third shrita, a third hadrama, a third shrita. What's the status of the shrita? Again, I want to say, I just want to point out, remember, the cities of command, where does this happen? Okay, you guys said any Gamara, but these cases are actually very interesting because what again, what this is helping us to narrow down is what is the 29:27 defining feature of proper shrita? Is it when the animal dies, or is it the majority of the cut? In other words, do we need the majority of the cut taking place in a proper area? In which case, it doesn't really Maybe it doesn't matter to us at which point during the shrita the animal dies, or that no, it's that at the moment that the animal dies, we need you to be cutting in a proper area. It's fascinating nuance. So again, 29:50 1/3 shrita, 1/3 hadrama, 1/3 shrita. Rav Yehuda and Rav Shira. So, Rav Yehuda says in the name of Rav that it's kosher. Okay. Asu shai Rav and again, I want to say, the logic behind that would seem to be the logic I want to say would seem to be is because you have 2/3 shrita. You have 2/3 shrita, that should be enough. Asu shai Rav Puna, am treifa. They asked Rav Puna about this. Rav Puna said it's a treifa. 30:14 V'shama Rav Yehuda dikpid. So, Rav Yehuda got upset. Rav Yehuda is great. Rav Yehuda got upset. Why did he get upset? Amar, tarifna umachsheir umachsheirna treif. So, Rav Yehuda says like this, every single time I say that something is kosher, Rav Puna says it's treif. And every single time I say it's treif, Rav Puna says it's kosher. Sounds a lot like contemporary kashrus, right? 30:36 Right? So again, right? Every single time this one says it's kosher, this one says it's treif. This one says it's treif, this one says it's kosher. So then the Gemara says, Rav Huna, Shmuel bar Rav Nachmani. Rav Huna says ultimately again, you know what? You know what? He He's right to be Nachmani on that. Rav Ada de Ulla Shmuel bar Rav Nachmani So first of all, Rav Ada bar Ahavah I want to point out over here, Rav Yehuda is the only one 30:59 stealing this name of Rav. Rav Huna Rav Huna ultimately again, Rav Huna is saying though Rav Huna is just espousing his own idea. So the fact that Rav Yehuda is is espousing the position of Rav would seem to lend his position a little bit more strength. So it makes sense that he's an editor of Huna. So first of all the one that he heard it from Rav. Rav Ada lo Shmuel. So again what I want to point out is interesting. 31:22 This is Rav Huna, right? So again, let's go back for just a second. Shechita a third, hagarma a third, shechita a third. Rav Yehuda said in the name of Rav, kosher. Kosher, why? You've got two thirds shechita. They asked Rav Huna, Rav Huna says it's treif. Rav Huna said treif. Rav Yehuda heard what Rav Huna said, and Rav Yehuda said this is ridiculous. He got upset. Every single time I say something is kosher Rav Huna says it's treif. Every single time I say 31:44 it's treif he says that it's kosher. Rav Huna heard that Rav Yehuda got upset. And Rav Huna said, you know what? He's right. He's entitled to get upset. He's entitled to get upset. Why? Number one Number one, Rav Yehuda Rav Yehuda is quoting a position from Rav. So right, he has it from his rebbe. I'm not quoting a position from Rav, I'm quoting my own opinion. 32:05 The old pe'ika ruba shechita. And Rav Yehuda does have a very valid point. Why? Because at the end of the day in this case, two thirds of the shechita did occur in the permitted area. And I just want to say this. Rav Chisda bar Rav Nachmani, watch this. So Rav Chisda said to Rav Huna, don't back down. Don't back down. No, I think you're right. 32:24 That ultimately again, it's going to be it is going to be treif. Rav Chisda, why? De'im kein, de'im kein mafsada de'alma kamaisa. So what is this very interesting? So Rav Rav Chisda said back to Rav Huna, don't back down in this case cuz if you back down in this case, you're going to compromise your standing in the other case in the previous cases as well. Ha sama mai tama kamach shart. 32:46 So, why why in the previous case ultimately again did you say that it's kosher? The he nafka kihu sabach shera kanafta. Because again I will say so I say to Rav Puna Puna, why why are you mach to the previous cases? Cuz again I will say again Rav Puna was of the opinion that halacha l'maaseh, we look at at what point in time did the animal expire? Right? And as long as at the time of death you are cutting in the right area, the shchita is going to be 33:09 good. So too over here the Gemara says, hacha nami kinafka kihu sabach rabba kanafta. But if that's the case again it makes sense why you would treif it up in this case. Why? Cuz again I will say what was this case? This case was 1/3 shchita, 1/3 hagrama, 1/3 shchita. If we operate with the idea that the animal the animal leaves this world, right? The animal dies at the 50% mark, that means when did the animal die? During the hagrama period. So again Rav Chista's 33:34 giving Rav Puna chizuk to stay to stand his ground. To say halacha l'maaseh, no, it's not true. Halacha l'maaseh, you need to go ahead and you need to go ahead and halacha l'maaseh um stand your ground. Because again the animal died at the time when the when the shchita was taking place in the hagrama area. Ikla Rav Nachman l'Sura. 33:51 So again I will say, so the point over here is you see this ongoing machlokes in this case where shchita hagrama shchita hagrama shchita hagrama. And again all of it comes down to this fascinating nuanced machlokes. Is proper shchita defined by the majority of the act of cutting taking place in the permitted area? Or is proper shchita defined by the animal dying while you 34:16 are cutting in the permitted area? That that's the fundamental machlokes that's happening over here. Ikla Rav Nachman l'Sura. Rav Nachman went to Sura. Baiminei. They asked him the following shaila. Shachat shlish v'hegen shlish v'shachat shlish mahu? What happens again I will say if you did shchita, right? 1/3 shchita, 1/3 hagrama, 1/3 shchita. Amora life life This is the case of 34:39 what you mean. Shchita has we are straight. Then if you shchita straight literally means like a comb. Just like a comb has teeth. So again, what do you If you do a shchita like a masrek, which means you cut up, down, up, right? And such a shchita is going to be good. 34:59 So he answered that Sorry, answered that that is the first Amora you mean and therefore it should be good. I the dilma the makom shchita. But one second, maybe maybe what you're doing is yeah, you're going up and down. Maybe going up and down in the prescribed area. I would say who says that up and down means you remember hagrama means outside of the permitted area for shchita. Maybe what you mean is 35:25 you mean is saying is like this. Shachat kim masrek, which we'll talk about this case. You shachat like a comb, which means you go up, down, up, down, right? Maybe that case is kosher as long as you're doing it in the permitted area of shchita. But the moment you go out of the permitted area, who says he's talking about that case? 35:43 You would think but you know in shchita it's like that. You want to follow this. So what's the shchita like this? I would say I might have thought that not only the shchita have to occur in the permitted area but shchita has to be meforas means straight. Straight. That once you start zigzagging in shchita, even if you're in the permitted area, the shchita is going to be passel. Which by 36:06 the way, would be logical. Would be logical. Therefore again, Amora know Amora Amora Amora you mean comes along and says no, even if you zigzagged in shchita, as long as what? As long as you did in the permitted area, the shchita is going to be kosher. I would say that is indeed the halacha. Now again, you'd have to be careful with that, right? Because you could easily run into like a Shijia issue, right? 36:28 Pausing. But again, assuming that you are very skilled, you're going to up, down, up, down, up, down in the permitted area. Technically speaking, such a Shijia could be kosher. Okay. You're going to be a lot of fun of your stuff kind of coming through with your Yoda. So, watch this. So, Rabbi Abba was sitting behind of Kahana. Of Kahana was sitting in front of Rabbi Yehuda. The Yosif of Kahana of Kahana was sitting and saying the following, "Shachat 36:52 Shlishi ve Hegrim Shlishi ve Shachat Shlishi Mahu." Here's our case. Same case over and over. You Shacht the third, you did Hagruma on a third, and you Shacht the last third. So, therefore, 1/3 Shijia, 1/3 Hagruma, 1/3 Shijia. Mahu? What's the Halacha? Amralay, "Shijia is good. It's good. 37:09 It's good. Fine." And I will say in the Posh case, what's the logic for it being good? What's the logic? What's the logic? 2/3 Shijia. You've got a majority. Again, that's the Halacha, 2/3. Hegrim Shlishi ve Shachat Shlishi ve Hegrim Shlishi. I'll give you the reverse case. 1/3 Hagruma, 1/3 Shijia, 1/3 Hagruma. Mahu? I'll give you the first wide line. Amralay, "Shijia is Posula." Ultimately, the Shijia is not going to be good. Which again, logic 37:33 would seem to dictate because you've got 2/3 Hagruma, 1/3 Shijia. Next case. That's That's case number two. Third case. Shachat be Makom Nakav Mahu. So, we'll say, "What happens if Halacha Watch this. Watch this. What happens if it turns out that the animal had a cut in its trachea? 49% of the trachea was already cut." Rashi says over here, "Shaya Chazi Shaya Chazi 37:57 Kanav 50%." Even half of it. Half of it was cut, right? But let's go with 49%. Half of it was cut. And what you did is when you cut, you you cut right in that cut area. Right? So, in other words, I'm the Shochet, I cut in. So, essentially, as I'm going in, my knife is not touching any trachea for the first 49%, and then it cuts the rest. What's the Halacha? Mahu? Amralay, "Shijia is Kosher." Ultimately again, the Shijia is 38:22 going to be kosher. They're going to say, "What be the logic over there? What's the logic over there?" Logic over there is because I am affecting the 51% of the cut, right? I'm affecting the I'm affecting the the the majority. 49% was cut before I got in there. I'm the one who made it to 51%. Shita is going to be good. Shachat upaga bone nakev mahu. So, what's he going to say? Watch this. 38:45 What happens if I lock on my saw? I'm beginning my cut, right? I'm in the trachea and when I get into the trachea I get into the area where there's a hole and therefore again I cut through the hole, right? I end up cutting through the hole, but it's the hole that completes the majority of the cut of the trachea. What's going to be the halacha over there? Shita so psula. Shita is not good. So, what's he going to say? So, look what just happened in those last 39:08 two cases. In the second to last case, the we'll call it the engine I'm calling it the engine of the trachea, which is the part of the trachea that I encounter first when I do shita it's cut. 49% of it is cut. That's where I cut my right and therefore I'm going in going in going in to open trachea. I finish off the last 2% 50 and 51% I do kosher. If I'm cutting the trachea and I hit a hole 39:31 I hit a hole and that hole ultimately again is mashed and completes the majority the shita is not good. You must going to say, "Okay, I'm going to call him I'm going to call him I'm going to call him I don't know my shna. I don't understand the difference between these two cases. 39:48 I don't understand why in case number one where the trachea is cut for the first 49% and I finish it off the shita is good versus when I'm shacting and the whole completes the majority ultimately again why it's not good. I'm going to say I'll tell you very simple shachat bamako nakev cuz what's he going to say? 40:05 Watch this. If you're if you're shacting in a place ultimately again where there's a hole nase kemisha shachat over the gamara is well. This is so fascinating. If I'm shacting and the first 49% of the trachea is already cut, and I finish off the last 2% making it the majority, right? I don't know what I'm saying. I'm just using majority, but I could cut the rest of it. It doesn't matter how much I'm cutting. The point 40:28 is, I'm completing the majority of the cut trachea. That's like having a case where an akum started the shechita, and ultimately again, I finished the shechita. Which I will say again, interesting the Gemara is saying that's a good shechita. Now, how we know that's a shechita we'll talk about, but that's that's what that's like. That's like a case where the akum started it, I finished it, and therefore the shechita is going to be 40:51 good. Shecha I'll look at Rashi in just a moment. Shecha Shecha Makom Nekev Nasi Kemi Shecha Oved Kochavim Chatzi Kan Vegamri Yisrael Tekan Nafko Chiyuso Beyad DeYisrael. Cuz we're also Remember again, we're assuming right now when does the animal die? When does the animal die? After 50% mark. So therefore again, I was the shochet at the moment that the animal died, and that's why the halacha makes it that the shechita is going to be 41:13 good. On the other hand, watch this. Shecha Tupago Nekev, but if I'm shechting I'm also Imagine the following case. I'm shechting. I get to 49% of the trachea, then there is a hole that opens up 50 and 51%. That's not going to be good. Why? Nasi Kemi Shecha Yisrael Vegamri Oved Kochavim. Wow. That's like a case ultimately again where 41:38 a Jew starts the shechita, and the akum finishes it up. So the Gemara is saying it's like this. It's essentially a pre-existing hole or opening in the trachea is equivalent to having an akum shecht. So if the akum began the process, and I'm finishing it up, so that when the animal dies, it dies in my hand, that's a good shechita. But if halacha lema'aseh I'm doing the first 49%, and then there's a hole that opens 42:01 up 50-51%. So that animal dies, it's not happening through my force, rather it's happening through that hole. That's like me starting the shechita, and an akum finishing it up, which is not going to be good. Fascinating. Kauri alei ovde kokhavim ovde kokhavim. He said about him akum akum. Now again I will say interestingly enough, this is fascinating. So Rashi points out over here lo shai kar over come. He wasn't 42:24 calling him an akum. He wasn't calling him an akum. Rather what was he doing? Ela lig leg al of lomar ovde ovde kam kolamar bishitas of so it was like we were saying like this, just because you say if the shita of an ovde kokhavim doesn't make it so. So I will say this is a really fascinating idea in general in life. Just because you say something doesn't make it true. 42:45 Right? And even if you say it over and over, that still doesn't make it true. So he's responding back, you're now telling me that a hole, an opening essentially is the equivalent of an akum shachting. I don't agree with that premise. I think your premise is fundamentally is fundamentally for we'll have to stop over here for today. 43:04 Okay, don't worry. We we are we are fine. Tomorrow is a super short off and actually I am so again we're going to be fine. We'll finish up the sugi tomorrow, but hopefully again close out some of the halacha l'maisa. Incredible. Incredible. Shkoyach everyone. Right by the way. I have
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